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Welcome to The Artist is In, where creativity doesn't stay inside the lines. We're your hosts, Kat Collins and Nina Buthansing, two artists sharing real, unfiltered conversations about the creative life.

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Whether we're chatting with each other or interviewing fellow artists, we're here to explore the heart of making art and what it means to keep showing up. Let's dive in.

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Hey friends, welcome back to The Artist is In with Nina and Kat. How are you guys doing today? We've been thinking about how we compare our work, our practices, even ourselves to other artists. When is it too much? Can it paralyze our creative flow? How does it affect how we view ourselves?

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In this episode, we'll discuss the impact comparing ourselves and our work to others has on our body and mind. How can we positively use comparison without beating ourselves up or wishing we could or should do more? Do you ever find yourself scrolling through social media or surfing the web desiring something better, something more, or asking yourself, why can't I do it like that? Let's take a moment and see what unfolds. So how are you today, Kat?

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Doing all right. Battling the allergies and ragweed, which is lovely.

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Ragweed season is the worst.

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It is. It is. Trees are the worst for me, but this doesn't help.

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Yeah. Trees and ragweed are, I think, my top

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two. I

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hear

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you. Yeah. No, it's not. How are things going with you?

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Pretty good. I will be able to share some exciting news, hopefully with our next episode. Yeah,

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I can't wait. Very excited for you.

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Thank you. It's so slightly hush-hush. And my solo show opens this month, which I'm super stoked about. That's right. So many good things. Yeah, I'm very excited. You have a lot coming. Yeah, I'm... I'm feeling good.

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Good, good. Are you as exhausted as you were?

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No, I had a nice weekend to recharge and I went down to... Forsyth National Wildlife Refuge in New Jersey. And I saw a ton of amazing birds that I never even knew existed. So that was a really nice, relaxing, fun day. And then I've just been kind of tying up some loose ends and enjoying the last bits of summer. It

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is that. It's already cooler. Fall is coming. I don't need it. No, I don't either. I don't either. I was kind of sad the other day, though, when I saw leaves starting to fall. And I was like, oh.

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I know. I do get sad because especially it's quieter in the mornings. There's not many birds because migration already started. But that cool air in the morning and the evening, it's just, it's so comforting.

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Yeah, this is my kind of weather. Forget that 90 and above crap.

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And we're both September babies.

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Yes, we are. So

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happy birth month to both you and me.

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Yes, yes. Happy birth month. We won't tell anyone our age. No, no. I honestly, I forget. Somebody asked me the other day and I said, I don't know. I think it's this age, but I'd have to actually do the math to remember. And I actually, I asked my wife later and she said, no, you just made yourself a year older. I said, well, okay.

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I didn't think that it was a real thing that you start to forget, but definitely after 30, I started to forget.

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Yeah. Yeah, mine was when I hit my 40s. So

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yeah.

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All good. We're not discussing anymore. Let's discuss comparison instead. Yes. That's what we're here for today. Yes. So it's impossible not to compare our artistic past to that of others. We all do it. It can be beneficial at times, but if we're not mindful, we can cause disruption within our creative self. Comparison is, for a definition is the process of analyzing two or more artworks, artists, or styles to identify similarities and differences. And it can help reveal insights into unique qualities, historical context, cultural influences, and artistic trends. However, if we do it too much, then it can become a problem. Correct. So when have you caused disruption within your creative self by comparing your work to another artist? What were the effects of that?

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For me personally, I fill myself with self-doubt and that feeling of not being worthy or inadequate and So I'm a perfectionist, but I'm also a procrastinator. And sometimes, especially when procrastinating, I will doom scroll on social media. And I start questioning my own skills. I question my path as an artist. You know, am I doing the right thing? Why is this person seemingly succeeding so much and I feel like I'm sometimes stuck in reverse? And that's when it can actually feel like you're paralyzed. And I don't know if that's part of having a creative block or if that's just beating myself up so much. Because not only do I start comparing my work to other artists' work, but I'll start comparing myself. And when we start comparing ourself to others, I think that really damages us even more mentally.

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How do you

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feel about

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that? No, I agree. I agree. I had this problem a few months ago. specifically with another artist that I got very envious of on social media. And it's funny because I adore her as a person. I know her personally. I love her artwork. I think it's amazing. And I was feeling this. It was so weird, but I was feeling this beating. I don't know how to describe it. I'm beating myself up or something like that because I wanted to create work like hers. and be that expressive and emotional in my work because she does it in such a fluid, more abstract way than what I do. And I was like, well, now I suck as an artist. I kept spiraling and saying what I do isn't good enough and all of those kinds of things. And then I had to remind myself that I don't need to create artwork like hers. There is room for both of us. And I do express emotion just in my own way. And it takes on more of a landscape feel where I realized her is more loud and outspoken. Mine tends to be a little bit quieter and more subtle in the way we express things. And we need both of that. But it definitely took a toll on my thinking about myself and about what I'm doing. Same with when I see an artist succeed or get into a show that I want to be a part of and I didn't. Or they made it to an art fair that I'm not a part of. And even though I have done a lot of successful things, it's in those moments I'm like, oh, well... I must suck as an artist because I'm not doing as well as they're doing. Or I'm not selling a painting that they're selling as much as they are. And I will tell you what, social media is the biggest driver of this. Because when you're scrolling through it and you start seeing all these successful posts, and while I am super excited for people and happy that they're succeeding, there's always that little twinge that I'm not doing enough. And I'm not good enough and I'm not making it. I'm not creating art that people like enough to buy, you know. And it's this cycle that I get stuck in.

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It is. It is a vicious cycle. And I definitely relate to everything that you said, especially when it comes to art shows. There was actually one recently that I had applied for and a lot of my artist friends had made it into the show and I didn't. And I was legitimately butthurt. And I mean, there were a few people that said that they were surprised I didn't make it, but I took a step back and I reminded myself, you know, there are hundreds of works that are being submitted to a lot of these shows and one person curating.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it doesn't necessarily mean that your work is good or bad or, you know, it could simply be that it just, it wasn't the right fit. It wasn't the style maybe that the gallery or the curator was leaning towards. Also, if you can only select so many, I'm sure the curator or the gallerist has a difficult time selecting the work as well. And I've experienced that running my own gallery, where sometimes I have to really narrow it down to what's going to get into a specific show. And it pains me sometimes to not accept certain works. But it's just, I think what I'm trying to say is we have to be mindful of all of the factors instead of attacking ourselves right away and saying, well, I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy. My art sucks. This person is doing it better. Look at all the stuff they've accomplished. We really have to look at the whole picture. And I always try to remind myself and I'll remind Thank you so much for joining us. A lot of social media is well thought out and staged or planned so that we just see this small piece into somebody's world. We rarely see the blood, the sweat, the tears, the grit, the rawness. And I think it's important to remember that we all have sleepless nights. We all go through battles, trauma, have frustrations that lead up to the happy moments. And I think it's okay to compare our work to others. I think it can be a good thing, but we don't want it to eat at us.

UNKNOWN: 12:41

Mm-hmm.

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Yeah, I think it's helpful at times to compare our art. And maybe compare is not the best word for that, but at least to critique it so that we keep growing and getting better. Because some of this sometimes is we may be upset we're not hitting certain goals that we see other artists getting, but it could just be where we at in our journey. Maybe we're not as advanced as somebody else is. I have have to look at the fact that, well, yes, this person's doing this, but they've also done this, this, this, and this, and I didn't. So, you know, am I putting the work in to get where I want to be too?

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And it's not a competition. It's not a race. You know, we all go at our own pace.

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Absolutely.

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And I personally tend to forget that.

UNKNOWN: 13:40

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 13:40

Yeah, I always want to be like 30 steps farther than where I'm at at the moment. And I have to remind myself, take it step by step and you will get there eventually. Doesn't matter when.

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Exactly. I mean, you will. And looking back at things that both you and I have accomplished, I think that we're doing a pretty

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great job. I would say so. I think that's important, too, to remind yourself that. like keep a journal or something or a word document or a note somewhere listing all the things that you have done

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and

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keeping track of accomplishments positive things people have said like often if somebody comments on an artwork or something on social media that's positive for me I'll screenshot it and save it just so I can look back and say oh well yeah I did do that oh yeah they did like that and you know instead of so I don't Yeah. You know, it reminds me that, hey, you are doing good things. You are. Well, thank you. We are. We are. We are. Absolutely. I did want to mention you brought up art shows and I see this a lot from artists. Yeah, exactly. As an artist who has applied to hundreds of shows, For every one I get in, there's like 20 that have said no. And I have learned, yes, sometimes it's crushing. There is a show starting soon that I didn't get in. And I was pretty upset about it because a lot of people I know are in it.

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I wonder if it's the same one we're talking about.

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It probably is, yes. I believe so. I'm so happy. I'm excited for the show and I'm so happy. I know. I am.

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But yeah, sometimes Sometimes you're like,

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ah, I know, like, I'll see an ad for it. I'm like, well, foodie on you. You know, but then at the same time, I'm really excited for a lot of my friends who are in it, you know, because they're very excited. It's a big thing for them. So sometimes it's a bitter pill to swallow. And it's okay to be upset. There's nothing wrong with that. It's what you do with that that is what matters. Yes. You know, turn that into action in how can I improve on the next one? Maybe it's choosing one of your other paintings for something or artwork or, you know, finding out from somebody if they could critique what you do or maybe it's how you wrote your artist statement. It can be anything. Or it's just you don't fit the theme of what the juror had in their head for that moment. But I think the biggest thing is I've learned is don't take it personally. It's nothing against you.

SPEAKER_02: 17:07

And a lot of times, too, it can also do with... While a curator is selecting work, they're thinking about how these pieces will work together as a whole. And I never thought much about that until I started doing it for a living. And it's like, okay, well, I can't have this one that maybe is, you know, dark and gloomy when everything else is happy and vibrant and joyful. You know,

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just it doesn't work. Right. And I think as artists, we don't think of those things. You know, we just think, oh, well, they hate me.

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You know, there's a lot of self-loathing. I'm terrible. I know. I should have never gone to high

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school. Everyone hates me. I know. Anybody who's in the arts, we all have this emotional drama. It happens a lot.

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I hope everyone enjoys my angry, raspy voice.

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Oh, goodness.

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So, this is... A little side thought that I had. Well, I shouldn't say that I had. I was looking through Reddit and then someone made a metaphor about art and like your work in a sandwich. And I thought it was funny and actually relatable. So I want to share it with everyone and then discuss a little bit. They said, You know, that's a really good sandwich. Use Dijon mustard instead of plain yellow. I should try some of that. Or, they slice the ham super thin with that one. I wonder if that makes a difference. So I laughed when I saw this. And I really just want to take a minute and talk about our art as if it were a sandwich.

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I have to say, this is a new perspective.

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Maybe I was hungry when I read this. But I also do really like a good sandwich. But I mean, I think, you know, when we're talking about comparisons, this is a good metaphor. I mean, you know, Maybe you like a lot of mayo on your sandwich. The mayo could be like gel medium. Some artists use a lot of gel medium and texture. You know, does that make their composition better or worse than yours? Or is it just the style and how it's presented? I also thought of bagels. You know, how can you, like, spruce up a plain bagel? I don't know. Maybe add a little bit of mixed berry cream cheese. Or if you're feeling really fancy, get the cream cheese that has the chopped walnuts in it.

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Now I'm going to have to get a bagel today. I

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just had an everything

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bagel. Oh, love me a good bagel.

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Yeah.

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No, I agree. Especially in comparison, you could take this as the good part of comparison, where if you're trying to find new ways to enhance your work or do something different, and you see somebody else's work, that did something different. And you're like, maybe I can try that and incorporate it into what I do. Like I do that a lot because I do mixed media. And sometimes I don't think of other mediums that beyond the ones I use all the time. And so sometimes it gives me that idea and I'm like, oh, they layered this kind of paper or thin paint over something else. You know, just like you would layer the thin ham, which, by the way, I don't like ham. So for me, it'd be like turkey or roast beef. Yeah. You know, and yeah, and I know we can talk about food and make this a food podcast. Anyway. But yeah, so I mean, I can see that. I'm

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going to start. painting with ham slices.

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Hey, they do it in fashion. Wasn't it Gaga who wore a meat

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dress? I was just going to say. Yes. Lady Gaga and the meat dress.

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Yep. It can be done. I

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loved Lady Gaga, but I couldn't look at that meat

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dress. No, that was a little rough. Yeah, I don't know if I'd use actual meat in my paintings either, but you never know. People use everything. People have used poop. They've used urine. They've used blood. They You know, it could be. You'd have to find a way to preserve it unless it rotting is an aspect you want.

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I mean, you might find some dog hair in my pieces.

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Well, I know I have cat hair, so...

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Not intentionally.

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All right, we can move on from the sandwich thing because one, it's making me hungry, and two, the rotting part is making me grossed out, so...

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Sorry about that.

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No, it's all good. It's all good. That is funny, though.

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So... I'd like to talk a little bit about what we can learn through comparison and how we find our creative voice. There's a quote that I'd like to share by T.S. Eliot. Immature poets imitate, mature poets steal. Bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole feeling which is unique, utterly different from which it was torn. So... It takes me 84 years to finish a book. I am the world's slowest reader, but I love to read. And I love, I love books. I sound like Ron Burgundy from Anchorman. There you go. I have a desk of mahogany. So a lot of these, I have, I haven't, handful of books that I haven't gotten all the way through yet, but I like to use them as research. I'll skim through them, etc. And I have one book called Finding Your Artistic Voice by Lisa Condon. And in chapter four... Lisa highlights navigating influence, and there's a few different key points that she touches on, but there's two that I'd like to discuss with you today, Kat. And their influence is all around us, and nothing is original. So I'm going to start with nothing is original, and then we can bounce back to the other point. But I really saw that when I started art school. We are learning techniques and styles from the beginning of time. It's hard to come up with your own original style, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think sometimes we're like, well, I have to be the only one that does this particular thing. How do you feel about that?

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Yeah, I agree. I think we feel pressure sometimes as artists to be quote unquote original. And you may be in the way that you're thinking about your artwork. But I do agree that nothing is original anymore. I think when art movement started back in the day and hundreds of years ago, it was original because it hadn't been thought of yet when things changed and you go from realism to impressionist to pop art and abstract expressionism and all these things, they were drastically different. Now we take a lot of what we've learned and kind of mesh them all together is how I feel. We don't, yeah, some people stick within certain boundaries of certain styles and, But like in my case, I don't, I pull from a lot of different aspects. I tend to gravitate towards the expressionist intuitive style, but that doesn't, My painting style doesn't really fit a class, which is good and bad, I suppose. I understand that. But yeah, so I agree that nothing's original. You're bouncing ideas off of everything. You're learning from what you see and what you've come before. I mean, most artists learn from copying other people's work. Yes. I mean, even when I went to art school, we did it. We would learn from the masters. And we would create work that was similar to their work to learn how they did what they did. And I think the key to that is you then translate it into your own work. Yes. But I agree,

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yeah. I mean, I remember one of the first pieces that I did In high school, we were learning about Van Gogh, and now I went to a private school, and we didn't have much of an art program at all. So the art instructor just printed off a few pictures of Van Gogh, and it was kind of like, okay, now paint this, but your way. So we weren't really learning. We didn't really learn technique from our teacher or much of the history. But I was able to look at that photo and pull from it what I felt maybe Van Gogh wanted. Yeah, I mean,

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and that's how we learn. I still do it now. If I see an artist that did a technique that I'm amazed by, and I'm like, oh, how in the world did she do this? Or he do this? You know, I'm... I will sometimes try to recreate what they did. Now, it will never look exactly the way that they made because I don't have that ability to do that because I always end up putting my own twist on it anyway. But doing that allows me to learn new techniques and new ways of seeing and doing things, which I think is important for all of us to do. And that is how– number one, using comparison in a good way, and then helps you find your creative voice because It's kind of like finding your clothing style. You're trying on different things. We all go through those periods as elementary school and teenagers and in college. Maybe one year we're goth, the next year we're nerdy, the next year we dress as ballerinas or the 80s where we wore the leg warmers and the tights. Back when I was in school in the 90s, which are coming back in style now, and I'm like, I don't want to wear this now. I wore this back then. I know. But we used to peg our jeans at the bottom, which is where we would fold them and be tight against our ankles. But the rest of our jeans were baggy. It was really the dumbest looking thing when I look at pictures now. But I kind of see it as like that where you're trying on different things until you find what really fits and expresses your voice and what you want to say.

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And I agree with, you know, it is okay to Copy people's work in the sense of using it as a tool. Using it as a tool to grow your skill set. Now, obviously, it is completely wrong to copy somebody's work explicitly and sell it as your own.

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Mm-hmm.

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But... There is always, I mean, I remember, again, back in art school, you know, we used other artists' work as reference all the time. I had a lot of pieces, probably, I think it was my junior and senior year at Kutztown. I was studying artists Gerhard Richter and Laura Owens. And I... use them as reference for a lot of my works in undergrad. I wasn't copying what they were doing, but I was influenced by them. That goes back to the influences all around us. What is influencing us and where are we pulling some

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of our ideas from? It makes me think of the book I read not too long ago called Steal Like an Artist by Austin Kleon. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it.

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I've seen that book and I am Very interested.

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It's a very easy read. So you could read it really quickly. Are you sure? Yes, I am absolutely positive. But his whole idea is the fact that nothing's original. Nothing is entirely new. All art's built on what came before. But it's about being selective and having inspiration from the previous works and not imitation. You know, the key is to transform it and encourages artists to collect what resonates with them and transform it into something unique from their own perspective. And that recognizing that all creative work is a remix of previous ideas. I also...

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That term, remix of previous ideas.

SPEAKER_00: 32:12

Yeah. So, I mean, so he's not saying literally steal somebody's work and make it your own. Because, number one, that's wrong. Ethically, morally, and legally. You'll go to jail. Yes, you can. And violate copyright laws. But... What it involves, he calls it good theft. It involves transforming the stolen material into your own unique creation. So much like an artist adapts a borrowed move to their own body type, like he refers to NBA legend Kobe Bryant. He described stealing a particular move from another basketball player and made it his own. And then it became actually a key aspect of him and his performance. So it's the idea that we should always be actively consuming and curating and collecting ideas, passages from books, interesting situations. creating a file for inspiration because that's the influence that's all around us. But then take that and make it into our own voice and to put that back out there. Thank you. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02: 33:31

I'm probably going to order that book now.

SPEAKER_00: 33:34

Yes, you should. I like there's a line that says essentially stealing like an artist is a permission to be a creative kleptomaniac. I was like, yeah, I can be that. You know, taking what inspires you from everywhere and making it your own, which is what we all do as artists.

SPEAKER_02: 33:55

Yeah, I mean, it's the same with, I mean, this Slightly off topic, but it's the same with like cooking. You know, you're borrowing, especially like you're borrowing from other cultures, baking as well. But I think that we can tie that into many aspects of our life.

UNKNOWN: 34:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 34:19

We're here to talk about art. And sometimes sandwiches.

SPEAKER_00: 34:25

Yeah, everything else we could be talking forever in a day. So

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with that, I want to take a little turn to go along with comparison. We also, many times, we also may feel big or small. And what I mean by that is, so recently I took a movement class at the Calm Space. It's a holistic center in the Lehigh Valley. And during part of that class, we talked about making space for ourselves and making space for others. And we discussed situations in which we might feel big or small. our work to other artists, other individuals, we might feel big, we might feel small. And big meaning confidence, assertiveness, you know, you're taking up space. And then small, there's positive and negative to both. But with small, a lot of times that can, when we say, oh, I feel small, it can stem from low self-esteem or anxiety or maybe feeling unworthy. But the healthy side of smallness is greater generosity, pro-social behaviors. Not shaming yourself, not shaming others, no self-loathing. But also, when it comes to being your big self, it's okay to embrace it. Kat, has there ever been a time where you felt big or maybe you felt small or both in your art career?

SPEAKER_00: 36:14

Yeah, definitely both, I would say. I find I often make myself small.

SPEAKER_02: 36:21

Me too.

SPEAKER_00: 36:23

You know, and it's not so much as like I'm trying to get out of the way of other people. It's more I don't think I'm worthy enough or I don't think I'm good enough. And I know where it stems from and things like that. But it's kind of I have. My personality can be a little different sometimes. I think differently from people. I tend to have a very dry sense of humor, a little sarcasm. Sometimes I say things at inappropriate times. Me too. Yeah. And I feel like my artwork is different, that it doesn't fit anything in the norm or traditional. And so I find at times I make myself smaller because of all of that. You know, that I feel I am not going to be accepted, that I don't fit in. And so it's kind of a self-protective measure to make myself small before somebody else can make me feel that way. Yeah. And it holds me back, to be honest with you. It's something I've dealt with a lot this past year. in trying to figure things out and where I want my work to go, what I'm really wanting to create. I don't think I've ever really shared this with people a whole lot. There was a painting I created last year in January that was purely abstract, very expressive, extremely different for me. And I was so excited by it. And I didn't show it to anybody for months. I hid it. I'm really uncomfortable with this. Because I don't think people are going to like it. I felt like it was me. Truly me. And I was afraid that it was going to not be accepted at all. And Oh, wow. Yeah. And I thought, I'll put a really large price on it because it was a large painting. It was like a 30 by 40. So it's not little. And I thought, well, I'll take it as just a bigger piece to have there that people will see and catch their attention. I'll put a big price on it because I really didn't want to get rid of it to start with. And then brought some other work with me. And a woman approached me and said she loved it. And I was like, oh, well, that's really cool. You know, it's the first time I've seen the light of day. And she's like, I want to buy it. And I laughed thinking she was kidding. And she's like, no, here's my credit card. I'm like, what? I was in shock. And I sold it to her. That's amazing. So it's a little bittersweet because I wish I still had it.

SPEAKER_02: 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:43

But I was stunned because I was like, I, for the first time, felt like I put truly me out there. And it was immediately accepted.

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You embraced your big self.

SPEAKER_00: 39:56

I did. And then what did I do? I went backwards in what I create. And I have never created a painting like that since. Really? Yep. I stepped backwards, went back to what I was comfortable with. Did a series that sort of embraced that, but not completely. And that series has not been accepted that well. And I think it's because I didn't put my full self in it.

SPEAKER_01: 40:24

And

SPEAKER_00: 40:26

I think people can tell. So it's that whole idea, I just made myself small again because now I'm like, okay, that was scary. I'm not going to do this again. You know, so, you know, it definitely affects the work we create as artists when we do this to ourselves. And I've been... Trying to push myself to go back to that route or at least a version of it and step back into that space. You know, what I create now I think is great, but I know there's more that I can do.

SPEAKER_02: 41:03

Yeah. I would love to see this. Peace at some point if you have a picture of it.

SPEAKER_00: 41:09

I do. I have a picture. It's not the greatest picture because it was in my basement. So the lighting sucked. But yeah, I can show it to you at some point. Maybe I'll share it on social media to let people see. I have shared it since then, but not very much. Okay. I think it was like right after I sold it, I shared it. And that was the last time I shared it. So, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:31

It's interesting how we... can make ourselves feel so small. And this is not necessarily art related, but I was working in a non-art career prior to running the gallery. And I was held back from a lot. Unfortunately, it was from due to management above me. And I felt every day, I just felt so small, felt like I couldn't do enough for them to be satisfied. And I had gone to leadership at one point because it got to a point where it was getting so bad that it was eating away at my mental health. And I kept a little journal in my desk drawer just to write my thoughts and feelings down. And I still have some of those journal entries. A lot of them I actually ripped up and threw out after I left because I didn't want to think about it anymore. But I have these journal entries that I repeatedly wrote down that I felt like I was being stuffed into a box that I didn't fit into, that I didn't belong into. And I think that was probably my brain saying, hey, you're bigger than this. But I was too afraid to. to like give myself the space because there there was there was someone else that was taking up so much space in my life that I needed I felt that I needed to make myself so small and I struggled for a long time with it and I mean yeah it does reflect in my artwork because I still have these thoughts that creep up in my head sometimes. It's like, you're not worthy of this. What are you doing? And that's where that big feeling comes in where it is okay. As long as you're not being an a-hole, it's okay to make yourself big. And great things can come from making yourself big as you experience with that piece. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 44:10

Yeah, I think about in the corporate world where I used to be as well, a lot of the times when I made myself big, I was punished for it because somebody didn't like it.

SPEAKER_02: 44:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 44:21

And usually it was a boss. Mm-hmm. And then they felt threatened by, you know, that I would take their job or I have no idea. Who knows? Breach. At this point. But, you know, so when that happens several times- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When it comes to art, it's the fear of not being accepted. Even though I'm a big proponent of create authentic work and create for yourself and all of that kind of thing, doing that is also super freaking scary. Because you're putting your vulnerable self out there. And now it's out there to be judged by everybody and their brother.

SPEAKER_02: 45:14

And people will judge it. Oh, absolutely they will. And people will be mean.

SPEAKER_00: 45:20

Yes, they will. You know, that's where limiting social media sometimes comes in handy. So, you know, in talking about this, it, There is healthy ways to do this and ways to compare with a healthy mindset. We've mentioned a few as we've been talking and using our own creative voice and embracing our big self. You know, I took that step of putting that painting out there and just say, okay, I'll try a little step and went much bigger than I thought it was. I'm proud of you for that. Well, thank you. Thank you. My hope is to get back there because now it's been a year of making myself smaller again.

SPEAKER_01: 46:01

Even

SPEAKER_00: 46:02

though I'm creating good work, I'm not where I want to be. I

SPEAKER_02: 46:07

understand that. It also might... Be you being a little hard on yourself because, again, I'll say it again, your Submerge show was phenomenal. Well, thank you. Thank

SPEAKER_00: 46:21

you.

SPEAKER_02: 46:22

But I know that we always want to do more. And you know what's in your heart.

UNKNOWN: 46:29

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 46:29

Well, I think as artists, it's always important that we're staying curious, being willing to grow all the time and expand what we do and push ourselves. You know, frankly, I would get bored if I did the same thing over and over and over again. I don't have the mindset for that.

SPEAKER_02: 46:45

Neither do I. Always something new.

SPEAKER_00: 46:51

Yes. So, I mean, we talked about comparing for self-improvement, not self-destruction, and the healthier ways of comparing and using that to grow our own unique voice, focusing on our own creative journey, not somebody else's journey, because everybody's in a different place. And just because I want to be where somebody else is, it doesn't mean I'm ready to be there either, too. I think sometimes we want to jump ahead and skip several steps to get certain places. I'm very impatient. So it's like, no, I want this now. And I'm like, no, wait, I'm not really not ready for it now if I look at it in reality.

SPEAKER_02: 47:38

I'm the same way. That impatientness just sits on my shoulder.

SPEAKER_00: 47:44

Practicing consistently. is a good way to embrace your big self. I always think about something I read and for life me, I cannot remember the book I read it in, but it's creating every day and showing up in the studio, even when you don't want to. And just keep practicing, keep trying, you know, it's not, make one painting and you expect to be successful. And I think this happens with young artists a lot where they create one great work and then they expect great things at that moment, which can happen. It does happen, but it's rare. That's less than 1%. Being consistent in the studio and getting that practice in really will build that. Plus it helps you find your voice more when you do that.

SPEAKER_02: 48:36

Oh yeah. I have, I mean, I have... I'm looking right now in my studio. I have at least three or four pieces on the wall that I consider just straight poop right now. But then I have one piece that I'm like, I love where this is going and I'm afraid to touch it. Uh-huh. Yeah. But we have to take those risks. Yes. Trust our gut.

SPEAKER_00: 49:01

Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, I think... That's a big one is willing to take those risks and being willing to fail and accept that we have paintings that will never work or artwork that will never work. And that's okay. You need the failures to get better. But one thing you can do is share your work, have critique groups, people you trust who will offer honest critique without tearing you down, which I think is important.

SPEAKER_02: 49:32

I'm very open to that, by the way. If anyone's out there and wants to do something like that, because I'm afraid of critique groups. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 49:46

I get afraid of it because I don't want it to be an attack on me. Yes. You know, there, there is a way you do this without being degrading to the artist. But there's healthy critique.

SPEAKER_01: 50:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:01

So make sure whoever you trust to do that, they understand that. And letting go of limiting perceptions. I think that's part of why I'm staying small

SPEAKER_01: 50:14

and

SPEAKER_00: 50:16

needing to let go of some things that aren't true. But

SPEAKER_02: 50:22

yeah. And we also, to that point, we also have to accept the imperfections.

SPEAKER_00: 50:29

Yeah. And we have to set healthy boundaries. And I think it's important that journaling is a big part of this for me is identifying what you love about yourself and your work and being vulnerable about it. A lot of what I paint, I will sit down and journal about it, especially if I'm working on a series and, because it helps me figure number one figure out what the heck I'm doing and what is tying everything together but then it's also finding out what the thread is what the theme is what I like what I don't like why don't I like something and why do I like something and it gives me ideas to explore further after this series too when I come back to it and so I think that's an important thing to do so

SPEAKER_02: 51:15

Earlier this year, I started writing, like putting little sayings or thoughts or small, like super short poems on the backs of my canvases as I was working. And that kind of became a form of journaling for me. And sometimes I'll start painting and then I'll flip the painting over and I see these little quotes that I wrote down and it ends up inspiring more for the piece. So I do agree with that 100% with the journaling. Any type of journaling you can do, even if it's 30 seconds, just jot something down. I think it really helps open the doors for new ideas.

SPEAKER_00: 52:03

Yeah, and it doesn't even have to be written. If you want to leave a voice note for yourself, you could do that too. I know there's a lot of people who don't like to write, but leaving a voice note or make a video or whatever,

SPEAKER_01: 52:16

however

SPEAKER_00: 52:18

you choose to journal is up to you. So let's recap. talking about comparison today, that it's okay to compare, but don't allow it to paralyze your creative flow and your artistic voice. Let go of perceptions, trust your gut and set boundaries. And allow yourself to be

SPEAKER_02: 52:39

big,

SPEAKER_00: 52:40

but stay

SPEAKER_02: 52:40

humble.

SPEAKER_00: 52:42

Thanks for spending this time with us today as we talk about comparison. We hope this conversation reminded you not to be so hard on yourself and that we learn from one another. Remember to make space for yourself and others, and it's okay to embrace your big self. We highly recommend it.

SPEAKER_02: 53:00

Yes, we do. This week, take a moment to jot down artwork, artists, or other things around you that have influenced your work. Reflect on what you've learned from it and how it's encouraged your growth. Think about a time that you made yourself small for someone else. Compare that feeling to a time you were your true

SPEAKER_00: 53:24

big self. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend who might need that same push. And we'd love to hear from you. What's one accomplishment from this week or month? You can tag us on social media at hashtag the artist is in or email us at info at Kat Collins studio dot com. Until next time, keep creating, keep noticing and take care.