SPEAKER_03: 0:00

Welcome to The Artist is In, where creativity doesn't stay inside the lines. We're your hosts, Kat Collins and Nina Buthansing, two artists sharing real, unfiltered conversations about the creative life.

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Whether we're chatting with each other or interviewing fellow artists, we're here to explore the heart of making art and what it means to keep showing up. Let's dive in.

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Welcome to The Artist is In, where creativity doesn't stay inside the lines.

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I'm Kat Collins. And I'm Nina Budhansing. We're two artists, friends, and co-hosts inviting you into real, unfiltered conversations about art, life, and everything in between.

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This is our very first episode together, and we're so glad you're here. We thought it only made sense to kick things off by turning the mic toward Nina and talking about her upcoming solo show at Lehigh Carbon Community College's Glass Box Gallery. Thank you so much for

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joining us. So let's start

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with an introduction for Nina. Welcome to The Artist Is In. I am excited. You are going to be a co-host with me now. We're going to do this together. And so for those who might not know you yet, tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, what you do, what's your favorite color. No, I'm just kidding. Whatever. Whatever floats your boat.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47

Favorite color is pink. That I knew. Kat, thanks for sharing this with me and inviting me to co-host. I'm very excited about this. So a little bit about myself. I am a painter and collage artist. I'm also, as of right now, I am the co-owner of Midnight Gallery in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, I will be stepping down as the owner and director and curator for good reasons, though. It's a bittersweet. I've had a three-year run there, and it's been wonderful, but I have decided to take a little bit of a different direction in my art career. Just a bit of my educational background, I went to LCC, Lehigh Carbon Community College, also in Schnecksville. I had received my associates there in communications for art, and then I transferred out of LCC and to Kutztown University in Kutztown, PA, and received my bachelor's in fine arts with a concentration in painting. So that was back in 2010. And then I actually got into healthcare for a while and kind of thought that my art career was over.

UNKNOWN: 3:08

Yeah.

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And I think that was just me being 20-something and not having any idea of what I was doing fresh out of college. But from there, I continued painting. Growing up, I always loved working with paper and paints. And I thought about maybe getting into fashion. So I had all these little notebooks that I would create. I would make sketches of figures. And then I would... make clothing out of old magazine papers for these figures. And I was fascinated by the different textures and the colors. So I think that's where my love for collage started. And the love for painting came very young. My mom was a painter and a crafter, and I would just sit and watch her make all of these fun creations. She even had a little craft stand at cottage crafters near where we grew up. And I remember she would make these little felt purses for different holidays and I would take them into school and like show them off and say, look what my mom made. My mom's so cool. And I always felt like I'm going to be like that one day. So I'm not making felt purses, but you know. And another thing that really like stood out growing up was I was always fascinated by different All the different colors that I could see and that I could make with different things. And a big thing was I loved eating cake growing up. And I always wanted the cake that had the big flowers in the icing. Because what I would do is I would sit off by myself and I would scrape off all the different color flowers. And I would put each individual color... in a little blob on a paper plate as if it were a painting palette. And I would use a knife or a fork as a palette knife, and I would blend the colors and make these abstract frosting paintings on my plate. And I didn't really make that connection at the time of what I was doing. But I'd even ask my siblings and other kids, like, hey, can I have that pink flower? Or, oh, I need that yellow flower. Can you... That's quite creative. I was just trying to like steal icing from kids so that I could make these edible paintings, I guess you could say. So yeah, this goes way back to my childhood. And to this day, I'm just fascinated and inspired by nature and the cosmos and And you can see a lot of that in my work with the abstract landscapes. I even do abstract cityscapes where they represent a lot of the paintings to me anyway, represent maybe other worlds that we see in whether it be our dreams or science fiction. So I hold all of that very close to me because it's almost like a getaway. I love that. I could just... It's kind of like when I look at your paintings, I just want to sit inside of them. Go off to special little plates. Again? No?

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I totally get that.

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Yeah. And then in the more recent years, I've really gotten back into collage. And my collages, I feel like I can be more free and loose with and funny. They're humorous. And a lot of them... A lot of the collages in particular definitely reflect on living with mental illness, such as ADHD, anxiety, depression. I've been struggling with all of that since a young age. And then I also have some chronic pain disorders like endometriosis and secondary fibromyalgia and then I have a hair pulling disorder called trichotillomania. So there's a lot that I kind of deal with and to cope with it, I should say one of the ways I cope with it is through my art and I use my art to communicate with the world.

SPEAKER_03: 7:40

Yeah, so this show that you have coming up, Chronically Chill, which I love the title, it's very deeply personal for you. Yes. So can you talk about what the inspiration behind the show was and why you decided to go so personal with this?

SPEAKER_00: 7:54

So the show I have been thinking about for probably 10 years. The first time I ever openly showed any type of work about my trichotillomania was in my senior exhibition at Kutztown. I had one or two pieces about the disorder in that show. And that was really scary for me. I definitely put myself out there. And then about five years later, I took that piece and I created two other pieces in response to it. And I showed it a small gallery in Bethlehem. And that was kind of just dipping my toes in the water to see how I felt about it. And I called I called that small series, She's a Tricky Girl. And the reason I called it that is because a lot of folks with trichotillomania, they call themselves tricksters. So it's kind of like trick for short. So that's why I called part of the show, She's a Tricky Girl. And then I just kind of forgot about it for a while. And then I slowly started thinking, I need to talk to people about this more because throughout the My time of learning about the disorder and understanding it more, I've connected with a strong community and I've found other people that have the disorder. And I want to be able to share that and educate people. So originally, the show was just going to be about the hair pulling, the trichotillomania. And then I decided, well, I'm very vocal about all the other battles that I have. So why not? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: 10:05

And your title of your show plays with that too, because I know in one advertising post I saw, you called it chronically chillness, but the CH is in parentheses. So it's the chronic illness, but you're calling it chronic chillness. And I really love that. It's direct if you catch it, but it's also the same time it's inviting. And what do you hope people feel or think about when they see the work in the show?

SPEAKER_00: 10:30

I hope people that... see this show will understand more about invisible illness because these are all things that aside from the hair pulling which people honestly don't even always notice with me and a big reason I think is because I do wear makeup to cover it up like I I use eyeliner and I have to draw my eyebrows to cover up the lack of hair on my face but I don't I don't pull hair anywhere else on my body so it's just it's just my Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So this is a show to really raise awareness for mental health and chronic illness, but also to make people feel seen and understood and comfortable and that it's okay if you're going through these things. A lot of people are going through these things and we're here to have those conversations.

SPEAKER_03: 11:50

Yeah, absolutely. I think art is a great way to communicate what's often invisible, with the invisible illnesses, with all of that. And then, you know, I also use it to create emotion that we don't say or don't speak of. So yeah, there's something powerful about that. And then turning your difficulties into a way to process it through art and then share that experience is incredibly powerful. And I think many people are going to resonate with this. And I know for both of us, art is a lifeline for us when it comes to mental health and healing. I know I deal with my own things as well. I've got the fibromyalgia as well, the chronic fatigue that I have to deal with. So it's a challenge. What's your relationship like with creating when things are tough?

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It's tough.

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Pretty much. Yes, that sums it

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up. Yes. I mean, there are days where I don't want to get out of bed.

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And

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it could be because I'm having a lot of pain or it could be because mentally I'm not available.

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And

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I really have to push myself some days, especially getting ready for this chronically chill show. I kept laughing with my husband like... I like to make light of the situation and I try to keep things humorous because if I don't, I might actually go insane. But I was joking with him, you know, like loosely joking, saying like, it's funny how I've been preparing this show about mental illness and my mental illness is getting in the way. Yeah, it's very appropriate. Yeah. And then there are other days where it's like, I feel like I could kick down doors and take on the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 13:42

Same here. Absolutely.

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Yeah. And it's like, well, why can't my body and my mind just always feel that way?

SPEAKER_03: 13:51

Right. I know. I definitely get that. There are days I can show up and do things and remember things. And, you know, I haven't talked a whole lot about it this year with people, but I've had a really hard time this year.

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And

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I've dealt with a lot of physical pain this year. And I've dealt with a lot of what's called brain fog, which basically means you don't remember things. I forget everything. And I forget conversations five minutes later. I miss appointments. I feel very discombobulated. I always am aware that something I should be paying attention to, and I can't figure out how to pay attention to it. Yeah. I mean, this show is incredible. I can't wait to see it. I'm so excited. But some days, you know, even the thought of trying to do something feels impossible.

SPEAKER_00: 14:44

It does. Yeah. And I can fully relate to the brain fog and forgetting things and conversations. And I'm very excited for the show as well. And I feel like my brain's been firing off 85 million times. different ideas. I'm like, how am I going to pull this together? And if I don't write it down, I forget. And then a week later, I'm like, oh yeah, I wanted to do that for the show too. Yep.

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I write it down and then I forget I wrote it down because I don't look at it. I'm like, well, that's not working.

SPEAKER_00: 15:18

Yeah. I'll write it on five different notepads and I'll still

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forget. I have a paper planner that I write a to-do list in every day. I've got a to-do list on my phone. And I have a to-do list on a pad of paper. Do I look at any of them? No, because I don't think to and I forget.

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And then I'm like,

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oh crap.

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You sound like me.

SPEAKER_03: 15:40

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, we can relate really well with this. Even when days are hard sometimes, I find I push myself to make something. Even if it's just I doodle. Because sometimes I have to in order to feel like I can survive. And then keep going with that. And I think sometimes that's hard for us is the idea that we have to keep pushing through this and keep going through this.

SPEAKER_00: 16:07

Yeah, I just started a little sketchbook because I beat myself up if I don't work in the studio every day. When I say I started a little sketchbook, I mean I've only drawn in it once. But it felt good.

UNKNOWN: 16:28

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 16:28

Because even if I'm not making a collage or working on stuff for a show or painting a picture, you know, painting on canvas, I can take the little, like, three-by-two-inch book out and do a five-minute sketch. And I'm like, okay, I was creative for the day. Do you feel

SPEAKER_03: 16:53

– because I experience this. I feel like there's this constant– pressure to be endlessly productive or positive about how I feel, how I present, how I create. I have a studio I pay for now. I feel like I have to be there all the time to get something done. But with the chronic conditions that we deal with, there's days I'm like, yeah, that's not happening. But then I beat myself up for it because it's like, well, I didn't get in the studio. I didn't do this. I didn't do that. And it's like, well, and then my wife reminds me, you've done a lot. Sometimes you just need to breathe and just rest. And I think we don't give validity to resting very much.

SPEAKER_00: 17:34

Yeah, we definitely don't give ourself enough grace or time to relax for ourselves. I think we're kind of wired as creatives to feel like we always have to be creating something. But we need to recharge. Absolutely. I had plans to work in the studio. All day yesterday. And I didn't. And I felt guilty about it at first.

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So

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I was like, oh, I'm going to go over to Easton and pick up a piece of my artwork from a show. And then I'm going to come home and work all day. But then I got a message from a friend and they said, hey, what are you doing? Come meet up with us. It's Sunday Funday. I'm like, you know what? It is Sunday Funday. I work so hard during the week. And at night, sometimes I just, that's what the weekend's for. If you can have a weekend,

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just have a weekend. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's okay that we rest, that we have fun. As

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we should. And not

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always create. But I think that's even important being creative to have those moments too. You know, your brain needs that time to catch up. And that's with anybody who's a creative. It's not just for people dealing with, you know, chronic pain or illnesses. I think we all need to take those breaks. That's when your brain recharges.

SPEAKER_00: 18:55

That's very accurate. And I actually think that non-creatives don't realize how tiring and mentally draining being creative can actually be. Yes. Yes. Especially for me, if I'm working on a really big project or if I'm curating a show, once I'm done, it's like a weight is lifted and then I feel like half dead for a couple of days. I'm like, I can't think any, I can't think anymore. I'm tired. Like I'm physically and mentally drained batteries at zero. And some people are like, well, what's so hard about having artwork? Well, there's a lot to it.

SPEAKER_03: 19:43

There is a lot to it. You know, there's a lot to being creative. There's a lot to that goes into what we do that. I don't think they're like, well, it's, well, you painted a pretty picture. I'm like, well, yeah, You know how much work that took? That was a lot. It's hard to describe because they don't equate just thinking about it as a lot of work. We're not physically sweating all the time. Although being menopausal, I do physically sweat all the time. Preparing menopausal.

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I'm not quite there yet and

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I'm

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just...

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Something to look forward to. I always have. Yeah, I do too. And this has just gotten worse. So yay.

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Yeah.

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Yay for womanhood.

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And then being on an SSRI makes it even worse.

SPEAKER_03: 20:32

Oh my God. Yes. The night sweats are the worst. It's awful. Not fun. But yeah, no, I, yeah, I get it. And then It's interesting, you know, because I was reading a book today. Well, I've been reading it for a while. And one of the parts it was talking about resting and boredom. And this artist was talking about how we should embrace. She called it boredom. I call it more being quiet or being still because that's very difficult to do in our society today. And we need those moments to just pause and be okay with that. And just kind of step back a little bit and say, okay, my body needs to catch up with me. I need to take a break. I just did a solo show. It just ended. Which was very beautiful, by the way. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. And I have to pick up the work Friday. So technically it's not ended, ended, but you know, whatever. It's officially ended. But the exhaustion leading up to that and having to remember how to do everything you know, to get postcards made, to make sure advertising is done, to make sure the work is all done and framed and wired and all that stuff. It's a lot. And when you're dealing with things like we have, like with fibromyalgia and I have chronic fatigue syndrome and I also have massive anxiety, that on top of it, every little thing I do takes 10 times longer, you know, and it takes me three times as long to recover from doing it. Oh, yeah. I get frustrated because I'm like, this isn't how it used to be for me. And now I'm like, I'm annoyed and want to keep going. And then I realize I have to give myself grace and say, no, now you've got to take time.

SPEAKER_00: 22:24

Yeah, I have a hard time taking time. I want to go, go, go. Then sometimes I move so slow because I have to. And there was something else I was going to say and I just blanked. Talking about brain fog. It's very appropriate. Yeah. Yeah. It's just gone. Yeah. I don't know. Is it the brain fog? Is it the ADB right now? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03: 22:54

Any of the above? Yeah, just all of it. Yeah. I think sometimes I get stuck in the idea of comparing myself to others and how much art they put out or how much, you know, they... I feel the same way. And then I get stuck in my

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head thinking that people are judging me secretly. Mm-hmm.

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Because

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I worry that maybe they think, well, she runs a gallery. She's an artist. She should be at these things. And then I try to remind myself, I'm one person. There are so many art events all the time. And we have to... It's not selfish to put ourselves first. No. Especially when we're putting our health first. But I do the same thing where I compare myself to people on social media. I... Nir had a heart attack when I saw all of the work you had in your studio the other day because I was like, man, I'm failing here. Oh, no, no. No. But these are the things we do. Yes. You know, we have to get out of our heads. I mean, I'll sit there and doom scroll on Instagram. Instagram is like the worst because– You only see such a small part of someone's life, and it's usually the best part. Right. It's the prettiest. So it's going to look glamorous. Mm-hmm. And then there's me. Here's a bee from my garden today.

SPEAKER_03: 24:52

Those things are just as important, though, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 24:54

But that, especially right now, I mean, moments like that keep me going.

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Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 25:01

And it's tough when winter comes and I don't have my garden to look forward to because I also not only do I use my garden as inspiration for my art, but it just it keeps my head above water. I mean, there's other things that obviously keep me going. But I mean, having the garden, it's like if I'm having a poopy day, I just go out there and And smell the flowers and hold the bumblebees, which surprised me. Which I think is

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crazy.

SPEAKER_00: 25:34

They let me do. Although, funny story. Well, not so funny. My sister and I went to see Shania Twain this weekend at Hershey Stadium. And beforehand, we went to the Hershey Gardens, which is beautiful. And I was like, oh, look at all these bumblebees. I'm going to go hold one. And I... went to scoop one up instead of just putting my hand out like I normally do. And I got stung immediately. And it was the first time since I was four years old that I got stung by a bee. No. And I knew I wasn't allergic because I have so many allergies. So they had tested me in the last seven years. So I knew I wasn't allergic, but I was like, oh, no. Like, what if something happens? And... My fingers started to swell and then my hand and my arm started getting really red and itchy.

SPEAKER_03: 26:30

Oh, no.

SPEAKER_00: 26:31

But thankfully, my sister is always prepared and she had Benadryl.

SPEAKER_03: 26:35

Well, that's impressive.

SPEAKER_00: 26:37

So I was a little sleepy for the concert, but it was so good.

SPEAKER_03: 26:41

Yeah, that's unusual because they don't typically sting.

SPEAKER_00: 26:44

No, bumblebees only sting if they really feel threatened. So I guess he just really didn't like me for some

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reason. He's like, I want my flower, not you.

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Because they hold them all the time at home.

SPEAKER_03: 26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:00

I just let them crawl all over me. It's crazy.

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That's funny.

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Yeah, I don't know.

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I think it's important. I was excited to talk about all this today with you, just because I don't think we talk about this enough. And talking about... If I'm

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overwhelmed or I'm not feeling well, you know, mentally or physically, my body always gives me warning signs. I know I have to just prepare and take care, like take care of myself. But I know I have to just prepare and take care of myself. And there are some days where I might feel really awful. And let's say mentally I'll feel awful. And I force myself to go in the studio and either just pick up a tube of paint and slap some paint on canvas, even if it doesn't become anything, just so that I can go through those motions and remind myself of why I'm here and what I love to do. But if I'm physically not feeling well with like pain, like I get, I get chronic migraines and usually my warning signs are the warning signs of a migraine for women are actually really scary because I get tingling in my face and it'll go down my face into my neck and shoulder. And then I get numbness in my arm. And sometimes I even have eye pain, but I have a whole, I guess you call them like migraine remedies. I mean, I have prescription medication, but sometimes you just feel awful where you need something else. So I always make sure I have an ice pack ready. Peppermint oil actually really helps me. I mix it like right in with like Aquaphor so it's not too strong. And then I'll put that like on the areas that are more painful.

UNKNOWN: 29:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 29:04

I also have my medical cards, so I use a THC lotion, which has helped immensely for the neck and shoulder pain. So I always have pretty much everything on standby. I don't know. I don't want to go off on a tangent here. No. No.

SPEAKER_03: 29:24

But I get

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it. You know, the other things that I do to make sure that I'm kind of keeping myself in check, what I'm feeling... under the weather is doing small things for myself like the other day I'm like I have to paint but I just don't feel well mentally so I was gonna go to the diner and get myself a waffle the diner was closed so I called up my sister and she was like come over bring some peaches and I'll make the waffles and it's like little things like that and then Then I went home and I painted and I felt really good. So I went from feeling like crap, but keeping myself in check and reminding myself of the things that mattered and got myself a little treat because everyone deserves a treat, even if it's every day. Sometimes a few times a day. Sometimes a few times a day. And also- not only like the treating myself, but caring for the things around me really helps for those listening that don't know. I have a dog. She's five years old. Her name is river. She's the most amazing thing. Well, I don't know. There's some other really amazing things in my life. Also like my husband, but,

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but

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everybody knows like, I love it. What was that? I said that's secondary. But she brings me so much joy. And she's my little studio buddy. She hangs out in the studio with me all the time. She has a little love seat that she curls up on. And when it's hot, she crawls underneath and lays by the fan. But she also helps me get through. Sometimes I'm like, I don't really want to I don't know if I feel like working in the studio today, but I'll come upstairs and she's in there lounging. So I'm like, all right, well, I guess I'm going to hang out with her.

SPEAKER_03: 31:33

She helps me. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. I have three cats and I love them. It's such amazing thing that I laugh at least once a day because of them. Oh, yeah. They keep me in better spirits. Sometimes I yell at them, too, and I'm not happy with them, especially when somebody vomits and I step in it kind of thing, you know, which has happened, unfortunately. But it's just having pets I love. There's something definitely about it. It definitely helps. They don't come in my studio because I've tried cats in my studio before. Number one, they shed like crazy and they get into everything. Oh, my gosh. My one cat used to chew on my paintbrush as I was painting. Which made it challenging.

SPEAKER_00: 32:23

That sounds about right.

SPEAKER_03: 32:25

So they don't join me in the studio because it would be chaos most of the time. But they're here now while I'm doing podcasting. They sleep next to me. So they kind of all go around me. And on the days I don't feel like doing anything, they just kind of hang out with me and curl up with me. You know? And I love that.

SPEAKER_00: 32:44

They really are the best. They are. They are. And I secretly don't trust people. people that don't like animals well i guess it's not a secret anymore not anymore

SPEAKER_03: 33:00

so much for a secret but i think a lot of pet lovers feel that way so i don't think that's that's too much of not of a secret though yeah i always distrust because i'm like why are you suspicious of animals yeah you know yeah no i get that completely so

SPEAKER_00: 33:19

yeah And we can learn a lot from them.

SPEAKER_03: 33:21

Absolutely. Absolutely. They rest when they need to, eat when they need to, go to the bathroom when they need to.

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And they're curious.

SPEAKER_03: 33:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 33:31

They're always exploring. And I try to remind myself that.

SPEAKER_03: 33:36

Gotta explore. Yeah. I think that's one of the things that keeps me going when things are hard is I'm always curious. You know, I'm always wanting to see what's next. Always looking for something to explore with. And just keep my mind going, you know, even if I physically can't do something at that moment, you know, it's maybe I'll journal for a minute. Sometimes my hands don't work. So I'll watch TV, which I don't always recommend because I don't do that very often, but sometimes you just got to veg.

SPEAKER_01: 34:09

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 34:10

Just to get through it and then come back to everything, you know, it's a, Definitely more of a challenge for me now because I have to force myself to drive to my studio. I can't just wander downstairs to my basement in pajamas anymore. But actually, I like it because it makes me consciously think about being creative and it forces me to get out there. So even if I go for a short time, it's like this excitement in me. Yeah. That wants to get me out there. And then community is such a big thing, I think, for artists. And having a support system. You know, you and I could not do this without a support system.

SPEAKER_00: 34:51

No, we couldn't.

SPEAKER_03: 34:54

Thank God for spouses. I will say that.

SPEAKER_00: 34:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 34:57

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 34:59

But the community is a big must.

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And it matters having somebody that believes in you. Yes. You know, even when you're struggling, they remind you of the good things.

SPEAKER_00: 35:12

That's what I love. Mm-hmm. Sometimes I'm like, can you, can you just tell me that again, dear? All

SPEAKER_03: 35:20

right. Well, before we wrap up Nina, when and where can people see the show that's coming up?

SPEAKER_00: 35:26

So chronically chill will open the end of August. I don't have the exact date. It'll be around the 25th when the students are back in session and it will run mid to late September and It's at the Glass Box Gallery at Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville. It's inside of the Rothrock Library. So you can always go on their website, Lehigh Carbon Community College's website, and the gallery hours should be listed on there. They change summer versus fall and winter semester. But also, the opening reception... to the public is Thursday, September 4th from 6pm to 8pm. So that is set for the opening reception. And if you want to bring friends, family, it is also going to be a little bit interactive part of the installation. So I would highly recommend everyone come see it, please. And I do hope I hope it can travel. I would love for this show to continue and grow and travel to other locations. That

SPEAKER_03: 36:40

would

SPEAKER_00: 36:40

be amazing.

SPEAKER_03: 36:41

I highly encourage everybody to come see it. If you can, we'll link all the info on the show notes to where it is and whatnot. And I want to thank Nina for joining me one to be interviewed, but also to be my cohost going forward with this podcast. Cause as we both have mentioned, In this episode, we can't do things alone. Exactly. Especially when we struggle with invisible illnesses that make things tough at times. And so having that support, I am truly grateful to do this with you, Nina.

SPEAKER_00: 37:14

Thank you. You can't see it, but I have a huge smile on my face right now. And I am just over the moon that you have invited me to co-host with you. And I really appreciate the interview today this has been really lovely good I love

SPEAKER_03: 37:37

chatting thank you I love chatting our goal is you know to pretty much just be two artists talking and you get to join in the conversation when people listen so it's very exciting our plan going forward is to release every other week sometimes it will be artist interviews sometimes it will be us chatting and we'll kind of go forward from there we'd love to hear how this episode resonated with you So send us a message, share with a friend, let us know how art and healing intersects with your life and how it helps you as well. So Nina, if you want to take us out.

SPEAKER_00: 38:11

Thanks for joining us for our very first episode of The Artist Is In. We'll be back in two weeks with more conversations about the creative life, the honest, messy, soul-filling kind.

SPEAKER_03: 38:23

Until then, keep showing up however you can, even gently, even slowly, even when it's hard.

SPEAKER_00: 38:31

Because you're an artist and the world needs your voice. See you next time.